How Long . . . . . is "Any Length"

Stop being " green" and start getting "real" about alcoholism -- by taking the Twelve Steps

How long does it take to go through a formal Alcoholics Anonymous program?

Greengirl

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Hi Greengirl,

This is a question that I suppose everyone should ask. If they have a brain anyway. Unfortunately the answer coming back may kill them - if they are real alcoholic - and if they ask the wrong person.

Yes, there is such a thing as the "real alcoholic" - just as surely as there are folks with financial interests in the rehab-detox-additions industry who do NOT want YOU to know it. "Addiction" is BIG BUSINESS and those who conduct the commerce of alcoholism and drug addiction do not want you to recover and so they will misinform you about "how long" the twelve steps takes to "work" through - as well as their purpose.

The "formal" Alcoholics Anonymous program to which you are referring is the "Twelve Steps". So many people confuse the 'the Fellowship" with "the Program" - fellowship or "going to meeting" is for as long as or whenever you want. However the suggested Twelve Steps (the Program) is designed to be begun and completed within a matter of days depending on each individual. Since each of the twelve steps does require immediate action into the next upon completion. Traditionally (as well as historically) the program took less than total of thirty days before the

desired result occurred. Bill Wilson was nine days, Dr. Bob about three weeks. In My case it was forty four days, but that was because I am slow starter and particularly prone to balking. The men I sponsor do it in around four weeks.

It is a race. The key is in remembering that most people in AA don’t consciously know the difference between the Fellowship and the program. They think that by attending meetings of AA that they are utilizing AA’s program of recovery – they are not. What do we do - stop drinking THEN pursue spiritually - or do we purse spirituality first SO THAT we have a spiritual awakening and consequently stop drinking?

Which idea do you prefer? Which one is the standing proposal heard in your Group? Go to any meeting and you will hear the former idea pushed vehemently - religiously.

“Just don’t drink - go to meetings - THEN when you’re ready we’ll talk about the steps."

OK? “But what about the real alcoholic” (21:1) who if he could “just don’t drink” then would not ever need to come to AA in the first place? You see the problem?

Greengirl, if alcoholics had the choice to “put the plug in the jug” then the problem would already be solved - without the spiritual experience that is the result of doing the steps. It becomes obvious that anyone who has such power over alcohol isn’t even an alcoholic (powerless) in the first place - and never need come to AA in the second.

People who push the meetings and fellowship first - BEFORE the Steps and Spirituality that is the result of taking those steps - ought to come to the funerals I have had to attend.

They have been the funerals of the people who needed to get to God as soon as possible and who heard the advice middle-of-the-road solutions based guys, brandishing medallions, spouting pithy and practiced "shares" from their folding chairs - telling them to "take their time" and "its not a race" - saying that “meeting makers make it” and rarely if ever talk about God or the Steps.

These are folks who somehow - probably because they aren’t even real alcoholics - have been able to rely upon the human aid of meetings and the camaraderie of fellowship to “stay away from a drink for one day” and have never experienced the insanity of the kind of obsession that us real McCoy’s experience.

Maybe that is why when they speak of "insanity" it consists of the stupid things they do in life - but doesn't include any reference to a "queer mental condition", "strange mental blank spot" or "peculiar mental twist" that the co-authors describe and with which ALL real alcoholics can identify.

Sorry, but simply 'drinking too much-too often' does not even approach the insanity of the first drink that real alkies experience.

When we alkies hear this, it seems so easy - confusing “simple” with “easy” is one of the things we do best. We take that easy way out - and WHAM - we get struck drunk - like a freight train hitting a stalled car on the tracks.

In talk about sobriety it is commonly thought that in order to stop drinking and remain sober, “You have to REALLY want it!” “It” being “sobriety”.

Anyone who believes this is true is very naive about the malady, yet I have heard respected and experienced “addictions counselors” use just this terminology.

Really wanting sobriety never helped me. In fact “really wanting” sobriety and not being able to achieve it is what helped define me as an alcoholic in the first place.

If I could achieve anything I wanted, if only I wanted it badly enough, I would have never have proceeded through the tortuous life of a real alcoholic to begin with. Trust me. I have spent almost thirty years being sick and tired of being sick and tired, and even THAT miserable life was no match for the one-two punch of true alcoholism - obsession of mind COMBINED with physical craving. If a real alcoholic could stop drinking just because it made him sick and tired and then got fed up with being sick and tired - he wouldn't be a real alcoholic.

As real alcoholics we cannot stop drinking EVEN THOUGH we are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Man, if you can get sick enough and tired enough to stop drinking then you aren't an alcoholic - or at least no t he type that I am.

We use the phrases like “willing to go to any length” - - It is possible to really want to be sober but not be willing to go to any length? I don’t know. Those dead guys don’t talk. They have lost the race - the obsession won.

God help me, I love AA more than anything on earth. I love meetings, friends, Traditions, AA History, Concepts ALL OF IT. It is right up there with my kids, my wife, family and God Himself. But unless Primary Purpose is our "primary purpose"- and we cut out all this treatment center crap that treats AA's Twelve Steps not as a solution but as another competing "Recovery Model" from which to garner market share - then I'm afraid we are going to find ourselves as cooked as Christmas Turkey.

Please whatever you do --- do not fall for that "it's a lifetime process" bullshale that confuses spiritual growth with spiral awakening. Spiritual growth is a lifetime adventure, yes --- the recovery through a spiritual awakening is instantaneous and ca n happen now. That spiritual awakening and consequential recovery from alcoholism through he the twelves steps can be yours and those steps are fast acting as well as they are effective. If you a re a real alcoholic Greengirl then I suggest you keep it real- not green.

Peace and Love,

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic

http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com

Is Alcoholism A Disease?

Why in the word is alcoholism considered a disease?

Blitzkreig
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Hi Blitz,

Not everyone does Blitz. Just some. You may be happy to learn that those with the most experience and success with alcoholism and alcoholics do not consider alcoholism to be a disease at all. There are many people in AA who THINK the disease model is an AA concept- but it is not. It is merely part of a movement to re-classify alcoholism as a disease and is product of the medical profession. For them it is all about money.

Look to the experts - AA. AA's co-founders NEVER ONCE refer to alcoholism as a disease in their Big Book, “Alcoholics Anonymous” – even though they certainly had the opportunity to do so. This is a glaring omission and likely intentional. The word “disease” is avoided like the plague in the AA book. Bill Wilson, in an interview years later was asked if he believed in the disease concept. He did not – and neither did the co-authors/co-founders and I don’t either.

The disease concept/model comes from the medical industry as it hones in on the alcohol and drug recovery business. They are, after all, in “the disease business” and if alcoholism can be classified as a disease – they’re good as gold!

They are successfully doing it too – taking back the business they abandoned years ago because they had no success and couldn’t make money at it – (Alcoholics don’t really pay their bills very often — now do they?)

Now, today – fueled by the health insurance industry, who pays the doctors and rehabs even as the “treatment” inevitably fails. What a deal! The rich get richer and real alcoholics die from a disease that does NOT even exist – and cannot be “treated” — from chronic alcoholism stemming from spiritual malady that is beyond the capabilities of medical science and "BOARD APPROVED" opportunists — and NOT DISEASE. Nice.

Think of how rich exterminators would get if they could convince the world that alcoholism where a rodent?

Whether it really is a 'disease' or not not may be a semantic and money issue for some time and until everyone is one the same page with with words -which will be never - we will never really know will we?

Hope that helps.

Peace,
Danny S – RLRA

What Brings About Recovery?

Danny, I still need a bit more on this subject since it seems to be a heated topic at meetings. I am at a point in my Recovery that to me is amazing. I am at total peace with all including myself. I know I can never pick up a drink again but I also realize that it is due to Recovery, Unity, Service, Prayer and meditation. Is "Recovered" a state of mind that one reaches after achieving all five of these practices in your daily life? Do Ya Know What I Mean?

Dan - Nevada

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I know plenty of people who are "doing service" at the group, area and district level - who are meditating , they say they are anyway - prayer and all that good “stuff“ and have not recovered as a result or consequence of those things.

I know plenty of people who are "doing service" at the group, area and district level - who are meditating , they say they are anyway - prayer and all that good “stuff“ and have not recovered as a result or consequence of those things.

"AA Service Junkies" who can stay sober by keeping themselves busy and distracted in the Fellowship aren’t the kind of drinker addressed by the Twelve Steps. Remember that when hundreds and then thousands of real, true alcoholics were adopting the AA Twelve Step "design for living", having spiritual awakening and experiencing full recovery from alcoholism there was no AA "Service Structure" in which to 'do service' There was only "working with others" aka "'carrying the message'. There were only "Groups" forming and those groups considered their sole purpose to be free form alcoholic through the spiritual awakening resultant from the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps.

The only way I know to recover from alcoholism is to have a spiritual awakening and while those activities maybe cool they are not designed to bring about a spiritual awakening. The Twelve Steps DO propose a spiritual awakening as the result. Don’t know it that helps - but write back if I misunderstood the question. Happy he helpful if I am able.

Peace,

Danny S

Too Anxious Too Recover?

I am very shy and I have a hard time speaking in public (without alcohol). Last time I tried AA meetings, I felt like an outcast. I found it to be very cliquey. It was hard for people to accept me. (or maybe it was hard for me to open up and accept my disease?) I wasn't able to find a sponsor or anyone to talk to, for that matter. Needless to say, I started drinking again. I need to go to meetings, but I am afraid that I will not be accepted, again. My constant anxiety will keep me from speaking at meetings and getting the sponsorship that I need! I know that a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts suffer from anxiety and depression. I am hoping there is someone out there, right now, from NJ that can steer me in the right direction. Please, don't bother commenting if you are going to belittle me.
Ronswife
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No one should belittle you. Hopefully anyway. I know that I won't. If you are a real alcoholic the meetings of AA won’t solve your problem. What AA has to offer you is the Twelve Steps – when you are new, the meeting is just the place you go to find someone who knows how to take you through the Twelve Steps so you can recover from alcoholism – assuming you’ve GOT alcoholism. Then after you recover you can go to meetings to find newcomers to take through the same process - the Twelve Steps - that caused YOUR recovery.

So don’t focus so much on finding talk buddies or friends in meetings. That will come with time - but it is not the first problem to solve even though you probably feel lonely. 'Lonely' won't kill you before the booze will.

AA meetings are places where the sickest most self-centered, self-absorbed specimens of humanity gather – AND they love to give advice and to give opinions on subjects like The Twelve Steps with which they have no actual experience – so please take this to heart.

Remember that “The sole purpose of the AA group is sobriety freedom from alcoholism through the teaching and practice of the twelve steps." (Biill W)

"Sole" means that there is no other purpose. AA meetings are not a place to socialize, dump your problems, or “hear the message” or whatever else some kooks will tell you AA is for. That may work for them – maybe they just need a place to go instead of a bar - but if you are a REAL and true alcoholic and not merely an alcohol abuser or "hard drinking" knucklehead who just drinks too-much-too-often then you may be suffering from an illness that ONLY an spiritual awakening can conquer – not an illness that 90 meetings in 90 days will conquer or a good “share” will conquer.

Anxiety, usually accompanied by few other mental cuties - is something we all feel at first - when coming into unfamiliar surroundings like PEOPLE - and running into a bunch of snots like you did at your first meetings probably didn't help - so here is what I see works all the time, and it doesn't matter if you a re anxious or not. Get yourself a copy of "Alcoholics Anonymous" and read the first 43 pages, which is designed to help you make a determination whether or not AA is for you. In other words, "Are you REALLY an alcoholic?"

You may not be. In fact the chances are good you are NOT. Only roughly 10% of the world population actually is. If you are, it’s like winning the lottery with odds like that. Because we have a solution.

Unless I had LEARNED to answer that question - it was impossible to know if I was "In the right place" - AA members say they don't like to proclaim individuals as alcoholic (Those don't betray their own precepts that is.) -- So I had to do it myself.

Luckily the book showed me how, just as it was designed to do. You will not learn this vital stuff in AA meetings - so please be careful not to rely upon those much. Meetings may help heavy drinking non-alcoholics who THINK they are "alcoholics" stop drinking - but it will KILL you if you a real McCoy.

Then when YOU decide that you are "One of us", or if there is anything you don't understand about how to make that determination, tomorrow go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and get a sponsor who has experience in taking others through the 12 steps and identifies him/herself as someone who has recovered.

If someone says they are still "recovering" politely pass, and keep looking till you find someone for whom the Program has actually worked.

Disregard how "Nice" or "Knowledgeable" the "Still recovering" person seems. "Still recovering" is the same as "Unrecovered". If you want to be that person's friend, fine - but do not permit yourself to fall under their sponsorship - unless they have recovered from alcoholism. "Not drinking" today does not count. YOU may NEVER drink again and this persons method to stop may KILL you - as earnest and nice as they seem, and as well as their method seems to be working for them.
Your sponsor will refer to him/herself as "RECOVERED".

She will know EXACTLY what to do with you from there and you can trust that without reservation. WARNING: These knowledgeable people can be a chore to find - even in AA meetings, unfortunately. But don't give up - show up as a student and the teacher will show up.

Do not let anyone sponsor you whose solution is "don't drink and go to meetings", or "Just don't drink" or "One day at a time". These concepts are not part of our Program, but they are rampant never the less. If that is their solution, and it works for them, it may KILL you, if you are a real alcoholic as described in those first 43 pages.

If you determine from that book that you are a "Real alcoholic" then that kind of advice does not work. Never has, no matter what they tell you.

If anyone tells you "Aren't ready to take the steps" RUN LIKE HELL! If anyone tells you they did it slowly, therefore so can you RUN! They may not be "one of us".

If anyone tells you that you ARE an alcoholic, just because you showed up. RUN! We don't like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic. YOU must ascertain it yourself, by those 43 pages.

Take the 12 steps as fast as you possibly can. It IS a race. You must recover before the next first drink comes along, and don't let anyone tell you that THEY know when that is for you. You do not have to be prey to arrogance.

And then after you have worked the Program in Program in the book, and the desire to drink has left, (That's a promise that it will), then you will be in a position to go find another alcoholic to work with as your sponsor has done and pass it on to another in the position you are in now.

Soon you will be free from alcohol, sponsoring others and joining us in the trenches. Your life will have become usefully happy and whole.
You could be recovered and enjoying the life by Spring. Now THAT'S simple.

What would I tell a drug addict?
Nothing. Although I’ve abused a lot of drugs, especially cocaine, I don’t know a thing about recovering from drug addiction -- because I have NEVER DONE IT.

I put the drugs down on my own willpower and didn’t need any help with it. Over alcohol I was powerless and had to find a new power. I found it through the AA Fellowship which delivers the 12 Steps to me. When I picked it up, I recovered. That "It" is God.

If I can be helpful in any way, please find and contact me. I have contacts in the Morris county area who can hook you up with a woman who can help you and show you to some meetings that actually serve AAs Primary Purpose and aren’t just “not drinkin’today” DUH! clubs.

Good Luck and

Peace,

Danny S
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com

Open and Closed

Danny,

What is an open speaker alcoholics anonymous meeting what do they do?

Go Eagles
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I was taught that a ‘speaker meeting’ is one where there are speakers who give a talk about their alcoholism and recovery before a non-speaking audience of attendees.

I was also taught that an 'open meeting' is one to which anyone is welcomed - non-alcoholics as well as alcoholics and those yet undecided.

So an "Open Speaker Meeting" is a 'speaker meeting' where anyone can attend. Even non-alcoholics just interested in hearing about alcoholism or learning about the Fellowship.

A closed meeting is one for alcoholics only. Non-alcoholics, no matter what other problems they may have, whether it be drug addiction, chronic diarrhea, bi-polar disorder, shopping addiction, ADHD or whatever - may not attend. - unless they are alcoholic.


Peace,

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

Disease? Addiction? Who Says?

Is being an alcoholic a disease or an addiction?"

Ladybug

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Ladybug, alcoholism is BOTH and NEITHER a disease or an addiction and whether it is or is entirely reliant upon who is defining those words. It is totally subjective - and that is very dangerous because there is human motive involved. It can be deadly. People DIE when they get their definitions and descriptions screwed up and under the thumbs of those who want to nothing but pick their pockets and bank accounts.

Depending on the motive for adopting whichever definition -- and that is usually money --- there will be great and differing of opinions. By my own understanding of alcoholism it should not universally be characterized by either word in describing it. It is a malady and one can become addicted to alcohol - but both of these factors do no come to to describing alcoholism or the alcoholic. People who make money from treating 'addictions' will try to call it an "addiction" and people who make money treating 'disease' will try to make us believe it is a "disease". It enough people could be convinced that it was an occupation I believe there would be "job training" - 'How to become an alcoholic' - for sale.

It is all about money. And we should not kid ourselves otherwise - it doesn't matter how "concern" and "compassionate" the TV interventionist and "counselors" appear to be onscreen - once the cameras role these are ACTORS who get paid for their performances - and it doesn't matter ho many "certificate" they have or how long the can stretch their faces.

If you want a clear description ask someone then you have to get off the money trail and go to someone who is objective and doesn’t make money off of us believing THEIR DESCRIPTION - “Alcoholics Anonymous” is just like that and has helped more alcoholics recover from alcoholism - for no money - than addictions specialists and physician doctors will ever hope to admit into their facilities.

They have been doing for over seventy years and do it the best. Alcoholism is a field that was long abandoned by the medical field - I suspect because alcoholics never do what they are told to do and they never pay their bills.

Well, alcoholics still don't follow directions well but now we have health insurance companies paying for "treatments" right? And suddenly the guys with the white smocks , the tongue depressors and the BMWs are all overt it? There is now an "Addictions" Treatment Industry complete with "Board Certification"? Are we frakin' nuts, stupid or both? They want the business back, now? After years - nay, centuries of leaving alcoholics to die in gutters and asylums?

I was suffering from an illness that only a spiritual experience could conquer - not a disease or an addiction that a stint in rehab, 90-in-90 or lots of meetings, of good friends could conquer and if lead a real alcoholic like me to anything other than that one single, real solution I risk his life and I am culpable when he suffers and dies.

I smell rats. Rich, greedy rats with long faces and compassionate eyes.

Peace,

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

Trading One "Obsession" for Another?

Hi Danny,

I have been reading about you and was hoping that I could get some much needed guidance from someone of your experience and knowledge.

My friend has been sober for over 22 years. He is very well known in the AA Community of SW Florida. I am troubled by his OBSESSION of AA. He is involved in several meetings a week. From chairing a meeting, attending, teaching, sponsoring over 25 people include some females, speaking at jails, community involvement. Every weekend he is gone on some AA seminar, conference, etc. I asked him if he thought his AA involvement is a little OBSESSIVE. He says it keeps him sober. He admits that he spends 90% time doing AA functions. He doesn't care how it affects his family or anything. He said when he dies he wants to be remembered as being "Useful" and "Helpful" to others in AA. It appears to me that he went from being addicted to alcohol to A.A.

He had to take an early retirement from the Military, as you may have guessed, due to drinking problems. He is currently in his early 50s. So he gets a small pension check once a year. He does not work. His wife financially supports him. He has a little girl whom he doesn't spend much time with. He has three older daughters and grand kids but they also feel neglected by his AA obsession. I am troubled by his lack of balance. As his friend and Spiritual Advisor, I have helped him through some very difficult times along with his oldest daughter (she is 30) When she was 13 years old she started drinking a lot. Her dad, (my friend) was so involved in AA (being gone all the time) he was not even aware she was drinking let alone an Alcoholic. I feel just terrible for the pain his family goes through; his lack of participation with his family. The sad reality is, his little girl will grow up and think that this is the way a family is suppose to function.

He has put on about 50+ in the past three years on his 5'5" frame which puts him over 200 lbs. Heart problems run in family. I am not an alcoholic or drug addict as I have never even tried either. These addictions are really out of my understanding. As strange as this is, I have had many clients in the past few years that are recovering alcoholics. Many of them have been sober for a long time (15+). When they contact me, they are still struggling with childhood pain. It seems that AA helps many people but yet (based on my experience) it seems they lack the tools necessary to Deal and Overcome these past abuses or major issues. I haven’t seen anything clearly stated in the 12 Steps that would address this..

I feel My Friend has NOT dealt with his pain, which is probably why he started drinking in the first place. He is using AA to the extreme to run from his issues. The more involved he is, the less time he has to think about things.

1.Can you tell me what you think is going on with My Friend? How can I help him? 2. Does AA teach others about “how to overcome the pain they are struggling with”?

Any insight you could give me would be so much appreciated.

Thank you,

Sandy

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Hi Sandy,

I don't think I can give you a definitive answer for any one individual as I have never met your friend but I do have several thoughts which come to mind. Perhaps these can be helpful to you.

I have observed over the years that many folks - even AA members themselves - acquire misconceptions about the Twelve Steps. The reason is that they often are directed to read the 'bulleted' summary of the steps on pp 59,60 and in doing so come to believe that they have "read the steps" and therefore understand them. In reality however, the directions, procedures and expected results for each step are more completely delineated in the entire first 164 pages of the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous".

For example Step One takes an entire 43 pages.(the first 43) Step Two begins on page 44 - Step Three on p 60 and so on. You would need to go beyond a summary and read those 164 pages to discover that the Twelve Steps actually DO have a complete solution to ALL of the alcoholic’s problems - not just his problem alcohol - and that this solution is entirely spiritual in nature. It is not a psychological approach, which perhaps you had rather discover. I don't know. I found this to be exactly the case for myself. I can tell you with complete surety that all of the problems caused by childhood "traumas" that would perhaps take YEARS of expensive counseling to even approach have been completely eliminated from my life. And it was darned near overnight.

They do not have anywhere near the detrimental effects they ever had on me and I continue to grow away from those with each passing moment that I keep in fit spiritual shape. To do that takes a very specific, very of task oriented Program of action and one would need investigate in those 164 pages to appreciate - and actually practice and experience them to begin the comprehend or even speak about them with any credibility.

There are many people who are "in AA" - who do service in the fellowship and who attend meetings, and yet NEVER bother to actually embrace the Twelve Step Program of action. They seem to become meeting and service "junkies" substituting one addiction for another. rather than becoming free from all addictions. Substitution is not the kind of freedom that the Twelve Step proposes. I don’t know if your friend falls into that category or not. I just throw it out for your consideration.

So to help your friend I might ask him, “Have you recovered from alcoholism by having a spiritual awakening as the result of the Twelve Steps and do you practice those principles in all of your affairs?”

If the answer is anything but yes then that’s why he still has problems. If he thinks he is “still recovering” - he isn’t, and that’s why he still has problems. If he does not think that any alcoholic EVER recovers and all he need to do is stop drinking - go to meetings and do service to others to get and stay sober - then THAT is his problem. We alcoholics are suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. Key in on: “only a spiritual experience”. Nothing less than that.

It is also possible that your friend IS an ardent Twelve Step practitioner - has had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps - has recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of body and mind - has been given the power to help others and has a legitimate calling to doing service in the AA Fellowship and that you are simply being an unduly alarmed Miss Butinsky. I know there are people in my family who still believe that alcoholism can be solved by the exertion willpower and that the work I do with others and service to my District and Area is a terrible waste of my time since after all, I haven’t been drinking for years.

Only you could answer that question honestly.

I hope that helps. If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know.

Peace,

Danny S

http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

AA a Cult?

'Why does Alcoholics Anonymous seem like a cult lately?'

No name

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I guess you are "Anonymous" huh? No Name, AA seems like a cult lately because it has taken on many of the characteristics historically attributed to cults. What has happened over the last thirty years or more is that AA membership has become top-heavy with non-alcoholics seeking free "group therapy" sessions and companionship instead of only those who suffer from alcoholism.

Non-alcoholics whose very lives and usefulness do not depend upon recovering from alcoholism through a spiritual program of action (the Twelve Steps) propose by Alcoholics Anonymous have naturally gravitated their gatherings (meetings) toward a "support group" mentality and psychological approach and functionality which often mimics cultism and in fact can easily turn into one.

Many believe it already has become a cult. My own view is that AA is not a cult but that the aforementioned non-alcoholic interlopers within the Fellowship are indeed. However that is only my own view.

Peace,

Danny S

AWOL - A Way Of Life

What is AWOL?

Eric
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How someone has the arrogant nerve and disrespect for the spiritual Fellowship, Alcoholics Anonymous and it's Traditions to stand at a podium in an AA meeting and promote a movement like "AWOL" is just beyond belief. Yet it is done all the time here on Cape Cod. It is largely only a regional phenomenon. Thank God for that.

I have mentioned AWOL to AA folks all over the country - and believe me - they have never heard of such a thing and they cringe to hear of it from me.

Rightly so.

AWOL - for alcoholics, is like cough medicine for cancer victims. AWOL is an acronym for "Way of Life" and is the "spiritual" side of The "Greysheeters" - a dieting over-eaters fellowship. It is a Twelve Step derivative that tells people that they have "taken the steps" and was deigned for people with overeating problems but since some people - mostly in the New England areas have stumbled upon it it has become a very popular substitute for the Big Book. When someone doesn't want to to take the steps out of the Book but still wants to claim they are "Twelve Steppers" they join the AWOL movement - then they come to AA meetings with their claims.

It is a watered down - and highly censored revision of the Twelve Steps from the Big Book but since the Big Book is still utilized in their 'meetings' the participants feel like they are really doing the AA deal. AWOL participant are told told this. What they do get is peer pressured motivation to do Step Four inventory that that is not present in their AA meetings and provides a sense of accomplishment for them when completed.

In contrast the unadulterated AA method does not need human pressure for motivation. True alcoholics who reach a true alcoholic bottom - a sickness of soul - handles that motivation pretty well all on it's own and there is no prideful sense of accomplishment - there is only a new relationship with God, full recovery and usefulness.

What you will hear people say stuff like - "Oh I am restless, irritable and discontent - I have to take another "AWOL'" because the don't come out the other side recovered like they would if they had actually used AA instead.

AWOL is perfect for non-alcoholics who wish attend AA meetings because non-alcoholics cannot use the Big Book 'as is' to take the Steps. These non-alkie also cannot recover from alcoholism. This is something to which they usually readily admit. Unfortunately they also tell real alcoholics that they can’t t recover either, which is not true. True alkies can and do recover from alcoholism because they have actually got alcoholism. A non-alkie may have an alcohol abuse problem - suffer tremendously and need to address that, true - but no one has ever recovered from an illness they didn’t actually have, as far as I know, anyway.

AN AWOLer's "mantra" usually is something like, "WE USE THE BIG BOOK". They do indeed - but it must be as a door stop because no one seems to ever recover or know very much about the Twelve Steps coming out of it. Anyoner who tells you that AWOL is the same as AA is lying o rmislead or both.

It is very dangerous in my experience. Not my opinion but my experience.People who have taken "AWOL"'s who are apprised of just what they have done are usually highly insulted and become indignant about it. They "thought" they had 'taken the Twelve Steps' ala AA - vis-à-vis their Big Book - and they haven't. SEE (Cognitive Dissonance)

Peace,

Danny S

http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

AA "Members" Trying To Get Into Her Pants?

I thought I was an alcoholic because I had gotten a DUI and I have some alcoholics in my family. I started going to AA and haven't had a drink in awhile. Now I am even more confused because I don't relate to the Big Book. I don't see how I am powerless over alcohol because I choose to drink every drink I drank. I never even get the shakes after I drink.

I took the alcoholic tests online and passed it as "not alcoholic" but some of then it also gave me a "You should watch yourself" warning.

I am really dissatisfied with AA because it seems like it's filled with con artists, and men trying to sleep with me.

Honestly, I never really wanted to quit drinking, I just wanted to stop drinking irresponsibly. I always thought the way I drink was just college party stuff. I am twenty five years old now and I am done with my college and graduate school work.

Is there any hope for me? Am I in denial? Is there anything else I can do that I can live with? I am so confused, and a little lonely. I cut off my old friends because AA told me to, and now I'm stuck with their crazy asses. I don't really want my old friends back either. I kind of just want some normal, mellow people in my life.

Oh, and my sponsor has proven unhelpful. She just tells me to pray about everything.

Thanks,
Planet
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Hi Planet,

First of all AA didn’t tell you to dump your friends. AA's principles encourage friendships with drinkers as well as abstainers.

AA isn’t trying to get into your pants either. AA has a book which details a moral and spiritual Twelve Step Program.

Some very sick, irresponsible and frankly creepy people - who happen to be in AA meetings - are doings those things Luv. NOT AA.

Creepolas and morons can be found ANYWHERE - even recovery organizations - maybe especially recovery organization - are not immune to stupidity and sickos - and AA has it's fair share. The best and most expensive rehab centers in the country have them too. Haven't you ever seen Dr. Drew's VH1's Celebrity Rehab? - I won't mention names - but - not exactly an hour full of moral mental giants - if you know what I mean.

Sorry honey but it sounds like you have been duped. Your "sponsor" if she hasn't qualified you as a true alcoholic, shown you how to do that and then either let you go or begun taking you through the twelve steps, is probably one of many AA frauds - as nice, well-meaning and helpful in other area as she may seem. She may not even realize it herself.

AA is full of people who really don’t need to be there - have no idea how to help other alcoholics, have no experience or need with the Twelve Steps and just spout slogans, drink coffee and ogle others or try to get laid. They trick others all the time into putting them on pedestals because of their "time" sober. They are the worst kind of interlopers because they KILL real alcoholics who really ARE powerless over alcohol and they swindle booze abusing, non-alcoholic heavy/problem drinkers who aren't really true alcoholics out of their lives by scaring them into POP-AA meetings they don't need to be attending.

They aren’t real alcoholics - just problem drinkers - and don’t even qualify for AA membership. They do not follow AA’s Program and only use AA as a “not drinking today” social club after they got into some trouble or wrecked their lives with a few too many hardy parties. When you come across recovered alcoholics in AA who actually practice and teach the Twelve Steps , believe me - they are NOT trying to get into your pants. They will try to help you.

As for whether or not you are really an alcoholic? Well that’s where the “duping” come in. You need to hook up with someone in the fellowship that knows how to show you how to answer that question - because they can’t do it for you. They can only show you HOW to do it - otherwise it won’t have the drastic internalized impact necessary to induce you to do something about it. If you are NOT an alcoholic the “knowledgeable sponsor” - not the arsehole who doesn’t know squat, one you have now - will use the info in the Big Book’s first forty three pages to show you the self-diagnosis you need to go through and have the courage to tell you.

Better yet, get yourself a copy of "Alcoholics Anonymous" and read the first 43 pages, which is designed to help you make a determination whether or not AA is for you. In other words, "Are you REALLY an alcoholic?"

You may not be. In fact the chances are good you are NOT. (Only roughly 10% of the world population actually is.) If you are, its like winning the lottery with odds like that . (Because AA has a solution.)

Unless I had LEARNED to answer that question - it was impossible to know if I was "In the right place" - AA members say they don't like to proclaim individuals as alcoholic (Those don't betray their own precepts that is.) -- so I had to do it myself.

Luckily the book showed me how, just as it was designed to do. You will not learn this vital stuff in AA meetings - so please be careful not to rely upon those much. Meetings may help heavy drinking non-alcoholics who THINK they are "alcoholics" stop drinking - but it will KILL you if you a real McCoy.

Then when YOU decide that you are "One of us", or if there is anything you don't understand about how to make that determination, tomorrow go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and get a sponsor who has experience in taking others through the 12 steps and identifies herself as someone who has recovered.

If someone says they are still "recovering" politely pass, and keep looking till you find someone for whom the Program has actually worked.

Disregard how "Nice" or "Knowledgeable" the "Still recovering" person seems. "Still recovering" is the same as "Unrecovered". If you want to be that person's friend, fine - but do not permit yourself to fall under their sponsorship - unless they have recovered from alcoholism. "Not drinking" today does not count. YOU may NEVER drink again and this persons method to stop may KILL you - as earnest and nice as they seem, and as well as their method seems to be working for them.

Your sponsor will refer to herself as "RECOVERED" and she’ll give you a lot more to do than pray. MUCH MORE!

She'll know EXACTLY what to do with you from there, and you can trust that without reservation. WARNING: These knowledgeable people can be a chore to find - even in AA meetings, unfortunately. But don't give up - show up as a student and the teacher will show up.

Do not let anyone sponsor you whose solution is "don't drink and go to meetings", or "Just don't drink" or "One day at a time". These concepts are not part of AA’s Program, but they are rampant never the less and by now people think it is part of the AA Program. If that is their solution, and it works for them, good - but it may KILL you if you are a real alcoholic as described in those first 43 pages.

If you determine from that book that you are a "Real alcoholic" then that kind of advice does not work. Never has, no matter what they tell you.

If anyone tells you "Aren't ready to take the steps" RUN! If anyone tells you they did it slowly, therefore so can you RUN! They may not be "one of us".

If anyone tells you that you ARE an alcoholic, just because you showed up. RUN! We don't like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic. YOU must ascertain it yourself, by those 43 pages.

Take the 12 steps as fast as you possibly can. It IS a race. You must recover before the next first drink comes along, and don't let anyone tell you that THEY know when that is for you. You do not have to be prey to arrogance.

And then after you have worked the Program in the book, and the desire to drink has left, (That's a promise that it will), then you will be in a position to go find another alcoholic to work with as your sponsor has done and pass it on to another in the position you are in now.

Soon you will be free from alcohol, sponsoring others and joining us in the trenches. Your life will have become usefully happy and whole.

You could be recovered and enjoying the life by Halloween. Now THAT'S simple.

What would I tell a drug addict?
Nothing. Although I’ve abused a lot of drugs, especially cocaine, I don’t know a thing about recovering from drug addiction -- because I have NEVER DONE IT.

I put the drugs down on my own willpower and didn’t need any help with it. Over alcohol I was powerless and had to find a new power. I found it through the AA Fellowship which deliver the 12 Steps to me. When I picked it up, I recovered. That "It" is God.

If I can be helpful in any way, please find and contact me. I would love it! It is always an honor to help out.

Good Luck,

Peace,

Danny S
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com

PS Don't worry about your AA "membership" - you don't meet the membership requirements anyway. You have to want to stop drinking.

LSD Cure for Alcoholism?

Did Bill W take LSD?


Danny,

Wasn't LSD touted as a Cure for Alcoholism during the '60s? I cannot say that I saw God but it definitely put the Fear into me...
Ned

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Yes. In the fifties LSD had not become a scourge. It was just another experimental drug - and it was looked at as having a possible role in treating alcoholism. Bill Wilson and his wife Lois participated with the US Government (the military I believe, not sure) in controlled experiments themselves. Of course they had no idea that the masses were going to grab and run with it and start synthesizing it in basements for its hallucinogenic producing abilities and then turn it into a major abused street drug of the next decade.

Initial studies indicated that something like fifty percent of all alcoholic subjects were “cured” with a single dose. These claims have been substantiated, but the DEA put LSD on it’s “badie” list in 1970 (Schedule I) and the research for uses of LSD were stopped.

Bill Wilson - who’s obsession to drink even though he could not metabolize EtOH properly which resulted in an uncontrollable craving for more EtOH had been completely removed as the result of a drastic spiritual experience that he had - saw the mind bending experience that LSD produced as possibly being spiritual in nature. His own dosing during the studies resulted in what his untrained brain had determined were indeed possibly “spiritual” in nature that if it were so, then LSD ought to be looked at as a way to ‘force’ a spiritual awakening of the kind that might remove the desire to drink. Many years later now we generally don’t consider LSD induced “spiritual awakenings” to be genuine. But hey, they didn’t know back then. Or did they? HMMM. :)

Peace,

Danny S

How Much or How Often Is Not a 'Qualifier' for Alcoholism

I know some people are going to say "Even if need one drink a day to function you're an alcoholic..", but seriously I want to know....how much does the average alcoholic drink everyday?

Dracula
****************************************************************************

Dracula, eh? OK. I've been wanting to meet you for a long time. Drac, there is no “litmus” test in either quantity or frequency of drinking that qualifies one as alcoholic or not. I am an alcoholic and there are many many people in my past who drank WAAAY more than I ever did or could and they did it more often too - but they never became alcoholic. They may have certainly been complete assholes - that’s for sure - they may have had a drinking “problem” and surely they could be considered alcoholic abusers - yet they STILL did not fit what I have learned and experienced to be a true alcoholic. They could stop or moderate if they wanted to. They just didn’t want to - and many of them later DID finally ‘want to’ due to the problems their drinking has bring down on them - and so they just stopped or moderated. Some toned it down because they got married. Others decided that their partying was just holding them back financially. Still others just lost interest. In other words - they grew up and became responsible.

Real alcoholics are an entirety different animal altogether!! We aren’t just “partying” too much anymore. We have reached a point where we cannot stop or moderate no matter how strong the desire or how dire the need. True alcoholics drink no matter what. What seems “alcoholic” to one person may not to another. If one person believes that one drink a day is excessive, he will consider anyone who drinks that much to be alcoholic, without necessarily having a any non-subjective method of making such a determination. The next person may be more or less liberal or conservative in their personal description of the alcoholic - with neither actually agreeing on an exact definition - even though both may undoubtedly agree that anyone who abuses alcohol and consumes it excessively is subjecting themselves and others to extreme physical and health risks and probably needs help.

This has been the case for . . . well, probably since man crushed and fermented his first grape. Then seventy years ago Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) changed all that and came forth with a “Description of the alcoholic” which fit a very specific and narrow type of problem drinker. Since no one had a corner on the market for the term “Alcoholic” the founders snatched it up and applied to those who fit their “Description“ and applied the solution the had discovered to that description. This revolutionized treatment of these type of people, since previously, “alcoholics” of their type were typically put away in asylums, effectively receiving no “treatment” whatsoever.

This “description”, which so many people fit (estimated at roughly 10% of the world’s population) was also revolutionary because it ignored the old and subjective litmus type testing based upon “quantity” or “frequency” but instead considered other mental and physical factors - factors which still stand true today and which are IDENTICAL to ALL who have the drinking problem of this type.

It never varies and is repeated over and over millions of times for almost three quarters of a century since first discovered and documented in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous“.

Here in a nutshell is how they describe alcoholism:

Alcoholism is a two-fold malady - mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an abnormal reaction of the body. (Which some term as an “allergy” - others simply use the words abnormal reaction.)

So a real alcoholic must have these two conditions present simultaneously:

1) Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start they will experience the abnormal reaction.

Combined with:

2) Abnormal reaction of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "Craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop.

This is an abnormal reaction and hence may be defined as an "allergic" reaction. The word used is not important - only that the abnormal reaction of craving is acknowledged. Call it what you will. This craving is an abnormal reaction and hence may be defined as an "allergic" reaction. Only alcoholics experience this reaction and it does not occur until alcohol is actually introduced into the system of the person afflicted.

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in problem drinking (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT does not qualify as a real alcoholic.

Both conditions must be present – and only ten percent of the world’s population has both of these conditions simultaneously

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." (Alcoholics Anonymous”, 44:1)

Since whether or not someone is a real alcoholic depends upon the existence of these two conditions simultaneously – then it is something only THEY can answer - because THEY are the only ones with the intimate details of their drinking history - even details which will NOT BE KNOWN to their closest friends and relatives.

It is a two-fold malady mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an allergy of the body.

The obsession - a strange insanity that occurs as a “mental blank spot” immediately preceding the taking of a drink, guarantees that the person afflicted will take the drink even with the full knowledge that it will result in a craving for more (allergy) or even though he may not have intended to drink.

This is strangely supplanted for the idea that it is safe to drink despite experience that it may not be safe to drink without experiencing the phenomenon of craving (or “Allergy“)

"However intelligent, responsible and reasonable an alcoholic may have been in other areas of his life respects, introduce alcohol and they seem to be strangely insane. “These “Allergic” types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence, their reliance upon things human, their problems pile up on them and become astonishingly difficult to solve.”
Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.

Recovery from the obsession (mental) component is possible but there is no known cure for the physical allergy portion. However breaking that one aspect is enough to sever the vicious cycle and allow us to live normal lives – as long as we never put alcohol into out bodies thereby setting off the physical allergy (craving). Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.

Many people who abuse alcohol for entire lifetimes NEVER even become alcoholic by AA's description – just heavy alcohol abusers - although both lifestyles are undesirable - even deadly.

Some with a genetic predisposition start off slowly and eventually DO “cross the line”. Until they do, they are what is known as “potential alcoholics” and if they continue will eventually “cross the line” and develop the physical allergy due to the overtaxing of their pancreas and livers. Once that occurs, and we know not when it does, there is no going back.

It is thought to be a bad idea to proclaim any individual as alcoholic since only the individual knows their personal history well enough and so completely as to make that decision - qualify as "Alcoholic" and WHOSE DESCRIPTION they wish to use. Most people who use AAs description do so only after realizing that no other descriptions have been adequate.

I hope that helps.

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

Source(s):

"Alcoholics Anonymous" Third Edition, pp 1-44
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com

AA - A Secret Society?

Why is it called Alcoholics Anonymous when the first thing they want to know is your name and your issue?

Papisback

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Papisback, it sounds as though you have made some incorrect assumptions about the name. That's OK - most people do and it is perfectly understandable. The name of the Fellowship has more to do with it's historical roots than practical application today. I mean, how can a Fellowship that proposes it's members

The first thing to learn the co-authors of the Big Book thought about anonymity. Then it might be more clear as to to why this concept of anonymity was incorporated into the Society.

It is important to realize that the fellowship was named after the title of the book, "Alcoholkics Anonymous." So the the questiojn really must be "Why did they call the book "Alcoholics Anonymous".

Well, early in the Fellowship the co-founders were afraid that once the Big book got distributed and word got out that they had discovered a solution to alcoholism that actually worked, they would be over-run with requests for help and unable to carry out their normal lives.

Many of the early members were professionals and wanted to get on with their careers. It was NOT a protective device from exposure, from a perspective of shame or guilt. Secrecy for the sake of "hiding" like a guilty child is not what anonymity was supposed to ever be about.

In Tradition Twelve Bill Wilson characterizes anonymity as having: "immense spiritual significance". It is key that Bill does this not in his essay about the Tradition but in the Tradition itself.

This aspect was absolutely impossible for me to understand for the first several years of sobriety.

I was very fortunate in that I took to heart the old Fellowship axiom of "Sticking with the winners" Those, in my view at the time, were some of the old-timers, and those with significant terms of sobriety. They also tended to be more active in service and serving than others - so the emphasis on the 'spirituality of anonymity' was brought to the forefront. I still did not 'get it' but I believe a seed was planted. I like to encourage those I sponsored to get into Service early. They do not. But maybe like I n me a seed will be planted.

As a newcomer I was stuck on the "Secrecy" aspect of anonymity - the protection of ones identity so no one in mainstream society could finger, judge or harm me financially and socially because I was some sort of social defective. Many newcomers experience this. Some never get over it either. I did but I did not escape it in the the beginning.

This is a very self-centered view of anonymity - - I must admit. Being only a year or two without booze and avoiding the more introspective aspects of our Program, how could I have been anything but? I was willing to serve, as long as there was some sort of recognition in it, no matter how small.

As I matured in recovery however, anonymity became more tied to humility. As my life as a recovered alky began to take shape, my own deflation saw to it that God was taking more and more the lead in more and more of my affairs. That humility of course necessarily spilled over into the things I did to be helpful and to serve my group, other drunks and onward.

In "The Doctor’s Opinion" while prefacing Silkworth's letter, Bill notes, " . . we work out our solution on the spiritual as well as an altruistic plane" ("Alcoholics Anonymous" Doctors Opinion)

Think for a moment about this passage out of the Big Book:

"It is important that we remain anonymous because we are too few, at present to handle the overwhelming number of personal appeals which may result from this publication. Being mostly business or professional folk, we could not well carry on our occupations in such an event. We would like it understood that our alcoholic work is an avocation." (Forward to the First Edition)

Now think for a moment of who we are talking about. We are not talking about a bunch of folks who justr "put the plug int hye jug" and started hangin out in churcj basements - playing junior psyhcoligst with each otehr, slugging bad coffee. We are talking about a hundred men and women who had accepted God into their lives as the overuling power - had analyzed their defects – completed their amends and realized a whole new way of thinking and behaving. Their fears had been removed and their attentions had been directed toward what God wanted them to be.

I know that after I had done they same as they - following this precious books directions exactly as written - changing nothing - and began to share in their gifts, I too stopped being afraid of what others thought and whether or not anyone knew if I was an alcoholic.

After all, alcohol had ceased to be a problem. I do not wear the Fellowship on my sleeve but I surely do not hide my dark past anywhere it can be useful. ANYWHERE. Not just in meetings. I am not in hiding. My life is an opened book for anyone interested in finding me out. I cannot be "outed". I am free to be of maximum service to prospects for the Fellowship by revealing my membership and status as a recovered alcoholic, who has been to hell and back and is here on Gods earth to stay.

Most folks I know who have likewise recovered are the same way while many folks who use AA Fellowship for other reasons beside recovering from alcoholism, tend to hide here in what was never designed to be "Secret Society". Their fears just do not seem to have fallen away like some others who have followed the path – the Twelve Steps.

I am not talking about exceptions. There always are some for some – for practical reasons. But secrecy about my past and the gift of my present is NOT part of my AA experience anymore. Apparently is was not for the co-founders either.

Anonymity is spiritual foundation of our TRADITIONS – not a wall of secrecy to serve my personal recovery and fears un-removed. A big benefit of recovery is about building back the bridge that separated me form the world for so long - not building a wall for fear of being found out. I CAN look the world in the eye!

Peace,

Danny S

The Higher Power of Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous?

Isn't it foolish for people addicted to substances that make you feel all good inside to surrender themselves to a higher power? First of all the term is all wrong (HIGHer power). Secondly, putting your faith in a supernatural power that is a cheap knock off of the holy spirit is like trading one addiction for another.

What do you think?

Dry Drunk
*************************************************************************************

What I think is that you will be very surprised by my answer, Dry Drunk. You may find your angry ego a little deflated too. The term "higher power" is not even in the Twelve Steps of those two fellowships you mention. The term used by the co-authors of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous is a "Power greater than ourselves" -- NOT "Higher Power".

Step Three: We, "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity". That's what happened to them.

You might be thinking of the hot-dog commercial. "We answer to a Higher Authority"

Secondly - There is no use of the word "surrender" either - not in the book "Alcoholics Anonymous". No such thing! Actually the co-authors speak in terms of "victory over alcohol" as well as our 'problems' and 'defeat' being the opposite of recovery. _{(See pp 63 and 76)}

"Higher power" and "surrender" are examples of terms originating outside of the Fellowship, mostly treatment centers - and have leeched into the lingo-pool of some of the members - usually folks with no interest in learning the workings of their own fellowship to which they claim membership. It is unfortunate that you have picked up on them.

You have been duped or misled by ignorant folks to think that these terms are part of AA. They are not.

Next time, do your homework to familiarize yourself with the subject you are trying to discredit and then ask again. It didn't work this time.

Danny S

What Makes One An Acoholic?

I have a serious question about alcohol. I want to know what makes someone alcoholic? What would you consider an alcoholic? How often would you say would have to drink, or how many drinks? Would you be an alcoholic if you drank twice a week, but got messed up each time but not to the point of puking or anything? Just curious.

Thanks in advance,
Sapphire
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Sapphire, alcoholism has nothing to do with how many or when you drink. It has to do with how someone’s body reacts to alcohol and then if that is an abnormal reaction, whether or not they drink anyway - despite it. There are plenty of real alcoholics who drink less than you or I and plenty who drink more. So a diagnosis cannot be made by comparing quantity or frequency.

Drinking a lot and often, more often than not, is an indication of "Problem" with alcohol - but this alone does not describe a real alcoholic.

A real alcoholic must have these two conditions present simultaneously:

1) Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start they cannot stop.

PLUS

2) Allergy of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "Craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop.

This is an abnormal reaction and hence an "allergic" reaction.

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in problem drinking (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT does not qualify as a real alcoholic.

Both conditions must be present – and only ten percent of the world’s population has both of these conditions simultaneously. Do you see the vicious cycle?

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." (Alcoholics Anonymous, 44:1)

Some people erroneously think that alcoholism is a Three-Fold disease – however according to the book Alcoholic’s Anonymous the malady is not actually a disease but a malady and it only Two-Fold: mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an allergy of the body.

The obsession - a strange insanity that occurs as a “mental blank spot” immediately preceding the taking of a drink, guarantees that the person afflicted will take the drink even with the full knowledge that it will result in a craving for more (allergy) or even though he may not have intended to drink.

This is strangely supplanted for the idea that it is safe to drink despite experience that it may not be safe to drink without experiencing the phenomenon of craving (allergy.

No matter how intelligent we alcoholics may have been in other areas of our lives, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. We allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found we cannot break it, once having lost our self-confidence, our reliance upon things human, our problems pile up on us and become astonishingly difficult to solve.

Recovery from the obsession (mental) component is possible but there is no known cure for the physical allergy portion. However breaking that one aspect is enough to sever the vicious cycle and allow us to live normal lives – as long as we never put alcohol into out bodies thereby setting off the physical allergy (craving). Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.

I would never suggest to someone that they either ARE or ARE NOT alcoholic - only the individual knows their personal history well enough and so completely as to make that decision. Many people who abuse alcohol for entire lifetimes NEVER even become alkies – just heavy alcohol abusers - although both lifestyles suck!

Then, some with a genetic predisposition start off slowly and eventually DO “cross the line”. Until they do, they are what is known as “potential alcoholics” and if they continue will eventually “cross the line” and develop the physical allergy due to the overtaxing of their pancreas and livers. Once that occurs, and we know not when it does, there is no going back.

Here’s an article that may also help: http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/2...

I hope that helps.

Peace,
Danny S
http://gourl.org/recovered

How Can I Stop Drinking?

I spent three 3 months in a rehab back in early 2006 but then started drinking again shortly thereafter.

I feel like I'm killing myself. I'm sure it will eventually cost me my job. I even go and buy shots at lunch. This sure isn't helping my relationship. I want to quit. I really don't know why I drink. It's like someone tells me I can't do something then I find any way conceivable to sneak it.

JMV
*********************************************************************************

JMV, get yourself a copy of "Alcoholics Anonymous" and read the first 43 pages, which is designed to help you make a determination whether or not AA is for you. In other words, "Are you REALLY an alcoholic?"

You may not be. In fact the chances are good you are NOT. (Only roughly 10% of the world population actually is.) If you are, its like winning the lottery with odds like that . (Because AA has a solution.) You might just be a hard/heavy drinker - which is totally different than a real alcoholic - and the solutions are very different too.


Unless I had LEARNED to answer that question - it was impossible to know if I was "In the right place" - AA members say they don't like to proclaim individuals as alcoholic (Those don't betray their own precepts that is.) -- so I had to do it myself - and that's what AA proposed anyway.

Luckily the book showed me how, just as it was designed to do. You will not learn this vital stuff in AA meetings - so please be careful not to rely upon those much. Meetings may help heavy drinking non-alcoholics who THINK they are "alcoholics" stop drinking - but it will KILL you if you a real McCoy.

Then when YOU decide that you are "One of us", or if there is anything you don't understand about how to make that determination, tomorrow go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and get a sponsor who has experience in taking others through the 12 steps and identifies him/herself as someone who has has recovered.

If someone says they are still "recovering" politely pass, and keep looking till you find someone for whom the Program has actually worked.

Disregard how "Nice" or "Knowledgeable" the "Still recovering" person seems. "Still recovering" is the same as "Un-recovered". If you want to be that person's friend, fine - but do not permit yourself to fall under their sponsorship - unless they have recovered from alcoholism. "Not drinking" today does not count. YOU may NEVER drink again and this persons method to stop may KILL you - as earnest and nice as they seem,and as well as their method seems to be working for them.

Your sponsor will refer to him/herself as "RECOVERED"

He'll know EXACTLY what to do with you from there, and you can trust that without reservation. WARNING: These knowledgeable people can be a chore to find - even in AA meetings, unfortunately. But don't give up - show up as a student and the teacher will show up.

Do not let anyone sponsor you whose solution is "don't drink and go to meetings", or "Just don't drink" or "One day at a time". These concepts are not part of our Program, but they are rampant never the less. If that is their solution, and it works for them, it may KILL you, if you are a real alcoholic as described in those first 43 pages.

If you determine from that book that you are a "Real alcoholic" then that kind of advice does not work. Never has, no matter what they tell you.

If anyone tells you "Aren't ready to take the steps" RUN! If anyone tells you they did it slowly, therefore so can you RUN! They may not be "one of us".

If anyone tells you that you ARE an alcoholic, just because you showed up. RUN! We don't like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic. YOU must ascertain it yourself, by those 43 pages.

Take the 12 steps as fast as you possibly can. It IS a race. You must recover before the next first drink comes along, and don't let anyone tell you that THEY know when that is for you. You do not have to be prey to arrogance.

And then after you have worked the Program in the book, and the desire to drink has left, (That's a promise that it will), then you will be in a position to go find another alcoholic to work with as your sponsor has done and pass it on to another in the position you are in now.

Soon you will be free from alcohol, sponsoring others and joining us in the trenches. Your life will have become usefully happy and whole.

You could be recovered and enjoying the life by Christmas. Now THAT'S simple.

Over alcohol I was powerless and had to find a new power. I found it through the AA Fellowship which deliver the 12 Steps to me. When I picked it up, I recovered. That "It" is God.

If I can be helpful in any way, please find and contact me. I would love it! It is always an honor to serve another drunk.

Good Luck,

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

Is Alcoholics Anonymous Spiritual or Religious?

AA claims they are spiritual. Many high courts claim it is religious. What do you think?

Kristen
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Hi Kristen,
I think that all religions are spiritual fellowships - but not all spiritual fellowships are religions. I think that AA is a wonderful Spiritual Fellowship - not a religion. Some AA folks have blurred the line because you can make a religion out of ANYTHING - the company for which you work, the Boy Scouts, Global Warming, fishing, knitting club , drugs, booze, food, diets - literally anything - even Alcoholics Anonymous.

These people are so ubiquitous that they can often be viewed as glaring examples of how AA works and what the Fellowship is - but they are poor representatives of what AA is all about - specially since no one represents Alcoholics Anonymous. Not me, not some old guy with grey hair and "a few twnety-fours" under his belt - not anyone.

I think there are many people who have converted their AA attendance in AA group meetings into their own personal "Not drinking today" church going . Their attendance at meetings is a daily "deposit" into some imaginary, cosmic AA karma bank that gives them some sort of self-created false security that they will not drink for that day - as long as they "went to a meeting". They are wholly dependent upon AA meetings and the people in them for their sobriety. That is their fault and the choice to do this binds them to people and not to God. AA's Traditions discourage this by theirs nature and intent.

AA actually encourages its members to go ahead and find a religion which it's members can choose on their own - if that is their desire. Alcoholics Anonymous even refuses to define God for it's members - something that real religions do not do. Real religions are very happy to define God for their members and insist upon acceptance of that definition on order to be in their church. They also NEVER allow it's congregations to join other 'competing' religions. So to give you the simple answer, then NO "Alcoholics Anonymous" is not a religion - unless one is stupid enough to make it into one - in which case, "More fool you".

It is however a "Fellowship of the Spirit" - by "Spirit" they mean God and this raises the ire of atheists and former AA attendees who hold grudges - usually former 'members' who never really qualified for membership to begin with because they were not actually "powerless" over alcohol - the way that real alcoholics are - and therefor never needed AA's Program to stop drinking - so they often try to insist that AA is a religion - but they can can never prove it, because it isn't true.

Many of these types have been court ordered to attend AA meetings, or been harangued and brainwashed by "addictions counselors" in rehabs to "go to meetings" upon release from those facilities. Some go to AA meetings prove something to families and friends - often that, "I am a good guy after all. See? I am going to AA."

Many are really still drinking except that the intervals in between their sprees are now extended. They try to call their sprees relapses but in reality they cannot relapse -- because to relapse infers first a recovery - and all they have really done is use AA meetings to slow down the calendar of their alcoholic escapades - the time in between their drunks. They have not actually STOPPED drinking. They fool allot of people that way. You cannot get sick again - from anything - if you never really got well to begin with. You are just SILL SICK!

To say that AA is a religion simply because it embraces God is like saying ANYONE who believes in God is religious. Just because the government says something is a religions doesn’t make it so. The US Constitution embraces God too -- that doesn't change the USA from a Nation into a religion or cult.

If the government wants to call AA a religion or "religious" one must consider just how valid such government decrees are and how much faith in it's ability to make such declarations for it's citizenry we are willing to accept. The U.S. also has also said that ‘ketchup’ is a ‘vegetable’ for it’s school lunch programs. That does not mean it is.

Anyone who lets the government define words and things for them is probably a zombie-fied robot - that includes defining what IS and what IS NOT a religion. People who argue that AA is a religion because one branch of the U.S. government says it is are such zombies.

AA is a religion if you are a suggestible hypnotized fool and make it into one. If you do not - if you are truly a free person and not just a product of your environment - then it is a Spiritual Fellowship of men and women who have adopted a design for living that really works for them and who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of body and mind and whose Primary Purpose is to stay recovered and to help other alcoholic recover too.

All religions are spiritual fellowships -- but not all spiritual fellowships are religions. AA is a Spiritual Fellowship. You can make a religion out of ANYTHING - your company, the Boy Scouts, Global Warming, fishing, knitting club ,drugs, booze, food, diets - literally anything.

There are many people who have made their AA and "Not
drinking" into their own personal "religion". That is THEIR fault and choice to so bind themselves and AA's Traditions discourage this by theirs nature and intent.

AA actually encourages its members to go ahead and find a religion which it's members enjoy. It even refuses to define God for it's members. A real religion could not, WOULD NOT do these things. Religions do define God for their members and NEVER allow it's congregations to join other 'competing' religions. So no - "Alcoholics Anonymous" is not a religion - unless one is stupid enough to make it into one - in which case, "More fool you".

It IS a "Fellowship of the Spirit" - by "Spirit" they mean God and this raises the ire of atheists and former AA attendees who hold grudges - usually former 'members' who never really qualified for membership to begin with because they were not actually "powerless" over alcohol, like real alcoholics are - and therefor never needed AA's Program to stop drinking - so they often try to insist that AA is a religion - but they can can never prove it, because it isn't true.

To say that AA is a religion simply because it embraces God is like saying ANYONE who believes in God is religious. Just because the government says something is a religions doesn’t make it so. The US Constitution embraces God too -- that doesn't change the USA from a Nation into a religion or cult.

If the government wants to call AA a religion or "religious" one must consider just how valid such government decrees are and how much faith in it's ability to make such declarations for it's citizenry we are willing to have. The US government also calls ‘ketchup’ a ‘vegetable’ for it’s school lunch programs. That does not mean it is.

Anyone who lets the government define words and things for them is probably a zombie-fied robot - that includes defining what IS and what ISN’T a religion. People who argue that AA is a religion because the US government says it is are such zombies.

AA is a religion if you are a hypnotized zombie and make it into one. If you don't, if you are truly a free person and not just a product of your environment - then it isn't.

Danny S - RLRA
Real Live Recovered Alcoholic
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/

Is Stopping Possible in Slippery Places?

How does a person help an alcoholic who wants to stop drinking, but surrounds himself with the wrong people and feels compelled to spend time with his "family" at the bar?? Is it possible for him to stop?

DG,
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Hi DG,

Real alcoholics are real alcoholics because they cannot stop even though they want to. But be careful, just because a person tells another he “wants to stop” doesn’t mean it’s true.

But assuming he DOES want to stop – and cannot - then consider this line out of the book, “Alcoholics Anonymous”,

“At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected.” (24:0)

A very revealing statement to say the least. Many times we hear stuff like, “He has to WANT it” (meaning sobriety) but here are the folks with the most experience with alcoholism and the solution, admitting that this is impossible to do for the alcoholic.

As a real alcoholic myself I can tell from experience that alcoholics don’t drink because they WANT TO – they drink because the HAVE TO. We cannot stop - just because we want or need to. It's a hell of a sticky place to live and very few people who CAN stop using thei r own will power just cannot understand why everyone is not mentally and physically able to do the same as they.

Even if he were to separate himself from his drinking friends and environments – he WILL STILL DRINK – no matter what!

So the solution is not to separate oneself from alcohol – but to recover from alcoholism so that he is FREE from King Alcohol and can place himself in the slipperiest of places and still not be tempted.

It is possible IF the solution is sought. If you’d like to know what they solution is, just ask, but hopefully that answers your immediate question directly.

Peace,

Danny S

Multiple Questions and Answers

Question Alcoholics Anonymous-is recovery possible?

YES. It AA proposes that power over alcohol can be achieved through a spiritual awakening. It does not propose that alcoholics remain powerless as many suppose. It suggests that alcoholics can find "new power" which they did not have perviously. And exactly where and how the co-founders found this this new power is clearly delineated in their book, "Alcoholics Anonymous". 

"We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?
Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. " (45:1)

Does AA teach that meetings are essential forever? 

NO. There were no meetings when AA was founded and it's method worked just fine without them. It still does. Recovered alcoholic like to go to meetings however, to find new people to teach them how they recovered. Other than that reason,modern-day AA meetings are non-essential to recovery and AA does not say that they are mandatory or even essential.

Does it teach that children of alcoholics are 100% likely to be alcoholics? 

NO. No where in AA's literature can this idea be found. The discipline of Genetics is beyond AA's scope and they would have no opinion it it.

Is there a gene for alcoholism? 

MAYBE. No one Knows and AA wouldn't have an opinion in it anyway. Research is ongoing and many researchers feel they are close to positively identifying one.

Are there facts to support that this is a "disease"?

NO. It's totally subjective. The medical profession says yes. But only after they figured out how to make money off alcoholics. Prior to that they ignored alcoholics. They still have not developed a treatment or cure for alcoholism - only a way to derive billions of dollars despite their atrocious success rates. 

The co-founders of AA said nothing on this subject. The Big Book, "Alcoholics Anonymous makes no mention of alcoholism as a disease either. Bill W, the first co-founder said "No" to this question and AA Publishing says yes in one of their pamphlets. No one can be proven right or wrong about whichever answer they chose to this question.

Hope that helps.

Peace,

Danny S

Why Can't Alcoholics Stop Drinking?

My father went into a coma yesterday because he drank himself to the point where his liver shut down. He lives in another state but when the police found him they described to me that he was very yellow. He had to know that he was sick. I know it is a disease, but if you know your are sick most people go to the doctor. I just wondered why. Why did he do that and why do people who are alcoholics can't stop drinking?  I know some make the choice to stop but others "can't". Why can't alcoholics stop drinking?

Thanks

 - Mzcleen

**********************************************************************************************************************

Sorry about your dad. Alcoholics cannot stop drinking because alcoholism is both a mental AND a physical illness combined. Most people, once they realize that they are doing themselves and others great harm by drinking CAN stop. 

If you got a burnt hand every time you stuck in into a stove flame, you would stop - wouldn't? Of course. Just as a heavy drinker would eventually stop if given enough cause to stop drinking. But if you kept putting your hand into the flame KNOWING that it would harm and hurt you - we would have to lock you up in a rubber room. And that is EXACTLY what we used to do with alcoholics who continued to harm themselves and others despite the knowledge that they were doing so. We used to put them away in asylums. 

Nowadays many of those would be committed alcoholics have other alternatives. Real alcoholics drink no matter what. You father be one of the few who are both mentally insane when it comes to alcohol as he is physically sick. 

Alkies have lost compete control mentally and physically over when and how much they will drink. 

There is Mental Obsession and there is Physical craving which are better explained here:

 What Is An Alcoholic?

Peace,

Danny S

Manipulating Alcoholic Husband

Danny,

I found you on the web. I left my husband a year ago and we have not gone for a divorce yet. I have put it off hoping he would quit drinking. He says he will and then he does not.

This is my second time around with him on his drinking. He wants a commitment from me, that if he stops drinking for six months then I must move back into the house.

I him to be six months clean and then for him to go to counseling. Do you think this is a reasonable request?

He has hurt me and is himself hurting but I cannot get through to him.

Thanks.
**************************************************************

Hi, Glad you found me.

No you cannot get through to him. I understand that. Most alcoholic “careers” consist of promise after promise to stop drinking only followed by relapse after relapse. Just like your hubby. In the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” this type of behavior is well documented and bitter real life experience supports it to a tee. I did it myself to my own wife years ago.

A commitment to stop drinking for six months only is not only probably not do-able, if he is a real alcoholic - and even if he managed to stay dry for six months he would return to his old “self” the moment he resumed - counseling or no counseling.

Real alcoholics cannot stop and start drinking when and just because the want and need to - they must and will drink, no matter what.

You could tell him he will die instantly upon the very next swallow - have it be true - and he will still have to take it. Hi s warped mind will convince himself that he will live or that death is good. It is THAT insidious.

For an alcoholic to recover he must be willing to go to any length for sobriety and that always included never drinking again for the rest of his life. A six month sabbatical is a joke.

Normally I would suggest asking him to go to AA - but AA is for people who want to stop drinking for good and for all, not for people looking for a six month vacation to get their spouse off their backs. And his suggestion that he'd be willing to do that is plainly nothing more than a manipulative effort on his part to get you to keep him “in the big bed”. Don't allow him to manipulate you that way. He is a master at it - is he not? All alcoholics are.

Is yours a reasonable request, you ask? Of course it is reasonable, but not likely possible I am sorry to say.

Counseling does not help alcoholics recover from alcoholism. Counseling does help “heavy drinkers” who are not subject to both the mental AND the physical aspects of the malady. In your scenario I am sure you are hoping that a six month period of abstinence combine with counseling will end this nightmare. Bitter, hard and repeated experience with alcoholics says it will not. Even your hopes, as you have articulated is a classically common example of how hideous alcoholism is - not only to the alcoholic but to loved ones.

If I know what part of the country you guys are located I may know someone in the area you can speak with or have him speak with. Get back with me if that is an option for you. I am able to be helpful, asking nothing in return as part of my own recovery - so please feel free to allow me to be as helpful as I can. I would be appreciative and you’d be helping me more than I’d be helping you.

In the interim I strongly suggest that you get a hold of someone from Al-Anon for yourself. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/ At least to speak with someone from there who has Baku experience in dealing exactly with what you are dealing with.

If I can help further please let me know. I mean it. And if you like I can give you my wife’s phone number to speak with. She’d be very happy to give you some ideas from a woman/wife perspective. She’s great! And has plenty of experience with me doing the same things that your guy is doing to you right now and the feelings and other difficulties that you are dealing with right now. Our only aim is to helpful.

I hope this helps.

Peace,

Danny S

AA - Can They Make You Join?

Alcoholics anonymous...is this how it works? If you got really sick one night and went to the emergency room and they found out it was from alcohol and had to pump your stomach...Would it be required they sign you up for AA, or would they recommend it and be able to sign you up if they wanted? Could they also set you up with a sponsor if you are under 18 to drive you to meetings and is 6 months a usual time in which you have to attend these meetings?
Joogy H

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Hi Joogy,

By "they" I can only assume you mean hospital officials or anyone else in authority. No one can "make" you become a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Courts can compel you decide to go to their meetings in lieu of jail time but no one forces anyone to go. As far as "signing up" their is no "sign-up" procedure for AA membership.

In order to become a "member" you only have to actually BE a real alcoholic - IE, "Fit" AA's "description of the alcoholic" which they detail exactingly in the first 43 pages of the book which they were named after, "Alcoholics Anonymous" - and then simply state yourself as a member yourself once you have diagnose yourself as such from that description.

If you DO fit AA's "description of the alcoholic" no one can deny you that self-pronounced membership.

However there are many autonomous groups and individuals within AA that are willing to pronounce you a member, and let you believe that you are a member without the benefit of AA's own diagnosis procedure, whether you qualify or not - and this has created rifts and a deterioration in Alcoholics Anonymous Primary Purpose, which is to help only alcoholics recover from alcoholism.

Obviously non-alcoholics cannot recover from a malady they haven’t actually GOT.

Never-the-less AA is full of non-alcoholics who merely have “drinking problems” never having qualified when they first tried to solve their problem by attending meetings in a fellowship which was never meant for them. Non-qualifying drug addicts, lonely hearts and just folks with other kinds of mental disorders are especially prone to this type of interloping.

In reality AA is a very exclusive organization, since only alcoholics can become members. But it is ALL INCLUSIVE with regard to real alcoholics - no alcoholic can be denied membership

Having your stomach pumped in a hospital do alcoholic poisoning would not qualify you as a member. The odds are in your favor that you are NOT a real alcoholic as it is estimated that as few as then percent of the world population are actually afflicted - this estimation INCLUDED folks who simply “drink too much”.

Hope that helps.

Peace,

Danny S

Alcoholics In Denial . . . .

. . . . or Just Not At Bottom Yet?

Danny,

I have a friend who I believe to be an alcoholic. My girlfriend and I have bent over backwards trying to help him. We do things like take him out with us socially. He had lost his wife and his house and now lives with his parents, which has been very rough on them. He is forty two years old for God's sake. I am running out of patience with him. Should I do more or should I drop him like a hot brick? I think he is in Denial.

Snowlepeord
*********************************************************************************

Hi Snowlepeord,
Modern psychology uses the term “Denial” which many of us are surprised to learn isn't even in a valid term that applies to alcoholics. It is thrown around so much one would think it is - but really has no bearing in recovery from true alcoholism.

There is something akin to "denial" that fits alcoholics? - something MORE fitting. It is a term which carries a bit more gravity – and is more fitting to most alcoholics than a size ten shoe.

The term is “Delusional” - and yes that IS in a valid term. Even Alcoholics Anonymous (the book) agrees with that. There is an inside joke amongst some of us that, “Denial is for Al-Anons. Alcoholics are "DELUSIONAL”

No offense to Al-Anons. Most people I hang with in AA LOVE Al-Anon - me included.

If the difference between the two words escapes you now – just think of someone you know, say a parent who thinks their bratty little kid is the most well behaved kid in the school and just can’t understand why all the teachers give him a C in conduct. That’s denial.

Now think of the parent who thinks their bratty little kid is the most well behaved kid in the school can’t understand why all the teachers give him a C in conduct and is taking the matter to the Supreme Court because little Tommy is actually "in training" for the Oval Office . That’s delusion!! - and now you get the idea. yes we alkies have been THAT BAD.

Even alcoholics don’t like to admit that there is something different about their bodies (ALLERGY) and their minds (OBSESSION) than other people.

Modern psychology has done a good job of getting folks to believe that their brains may need an overhaul and of course it stands to reason they would concentrate in that area - they are licensed brain mechanics. Hence they have invented this "denial" idea.

But it is NOT in their best interests to embrace the very real allergy "theory" because to do so would admit that their treatments are incomplete for the real alcoholic. That is VERY bad for business.

Only Alcoholics Anonymous tries to show people where the body is also different – and consequently we have no medical industry support in this area. Well, not until such time as treatment for the allergy becomes profitable to them. When and if "alcoholic allergy" can be backed up by scientific study you can bet the medical folks will be on that like dirty-on-a-duck, with trials and treatments galore. In the mean time people are unwilling to admit to BOTH conditions because they aren't LEARNING of both conditions

They called it – seventy two years ago – and folks today are still as unwilling to admit to what we call the “real alcoholic” and can only help those for whom brain medicines and behavior modification therapies have efficacy. They cannot help the real alcoholic recover. Consequently they have invented an absurd and historically false notion that alcoholics can NEVER recover.

As someone who finally became open-minded and willing to learn from AA, I became as convinced as convinced can be since the descriptions of those two conditions so closely paralleled my own experience that I was able to use the Program of recovery fashioned out of ages old spiritual practices, customized specifically for people like me –and by people like me. I know from my own experience that not only can most alcoholics recover but they can do so without the help of the profiteers who would rather have us believe that here is no recovery.

AA ARE the professionals when it comes to alcoholism. Medical Science, while it has its value, however limited, are the Johnnie-come-latelys in the field. They were left behind in 1935 when a Stockbroker and a Butt Doctor got together and started the wholesale distribution of a solution that worked for them and now millions of others. And modern science haven’t caught up yet, despite their trying and now their lying. So forget about denial being the reason for your friends problem.

He has not hit bottom yet - and its sounds a little like part of the reason is you. Have you considered that the help you have been giving him, however well intentioned may have actually prevented him from having his last drink? Let him hit bottom! Don't deny him the natural progression to coming to his jumping off place.

No one can recover from alcoholism until that happens - and if you are there laying down a clean towel every time he gets close to hitting the dirty floor - then you are preventing him from ever getting far enough down to want to get back up.

I hope your friend finds help. Trust me - it won't be from from you! If anything, you may have already delayed his recovery.

Peace,

Danny S

Not All Alcohol Is The Same

Danny,

I know it is imperative that alcoholics do not ingest, digest or use products with alcohol in it, so is it safe to use products which contain cetyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, methol or menthol etc? How about sodium laurel sulphate? Thanks

Boob
******************************************************************************
Hi Boob,

According to my my chemistry experts sodium laurel sulphate is not an alcohol. Methyl, which I think is to what you are referring, is an alcohol converted into ether but not the kind that alkies have to worry about.

Menthol, of course is derived from peppermint and is not even close to being alcohol. (Although from bitter experience I can tell you that between smoking Newports and sucking Lifesavers, we alkies with bad tobacco breath do seem to consume a ton of it until we recover from our illness) :)

There are many kinds of alcohol. Alcoholics are only allergic to Ethyl Alcohol also known as ETOH or Ethanol. This is the kind in alcoholic beverages. and the kind added to mouth washes since it can be easily metabolized - by MOST people, that is

Ethyl is a carbohydrate which the body absorbs and metabolize as a source of energy, producing calories.

A minority of humans, estimated at perhaps only ten percent of the world population experiences an abnormal reaction to this type of alcohol since it produces a phenomenon of craving in these individuals.

This is not an experience that most people experience - hence it can be considered an "allergy" in the same way that having low tolerance for sunlight or peanuts can also be called allergies.

People who abuse alcohol and do not experience this allergic reaction would not be considered real alcoholics according the the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" also known as The Big Book - even though they may develop serious health and social consequences stemming from their heavy or hard drinking.

Other types of alcohols such as the kind that may be present in trace amounts in some food products like orange juice, which have no energy value have no deleterious effects on the alcoholic in such minuscule amounts since alcoholics are not typically allergic to these.

I hope this is helpful.

Peace,

Danny S

Cold Medications - Just What The Untreated Alcoholc Ordered

Hi Danny,

Hey how long should I expect it to take for the obsession to lift? I really wanted a beer tonight after a long hard day. I ended up taking Tylenol PM instead because I have been having a hard time sleeping. I think I made the right choice as long as I don't do it very often. I am 4 months sober, with one slip and still can taste the stuff!

Julie

*********************************************************************************

AA meetings on Cruise Ships

Are there AA meetings on-board cruise ships at sea or would I have to wait to investigate once we dock?
Just wondering

HT
***********************************************************************************

Hi HT,

Most cruises will have a FOB meetings - "Friends of Bill". However, it doesn't matter whether there is or there isn't - because if you want one there will BE ONE! Do you catch my drift?

You simply start a meeting yourself and go to it. The AAs on board will show up. The crew will help you with the place, the times and announcements - they have plenty of experience with it. Trust me - you are not the first drunk to be at sea! Enjoy the cruise.

Isn't that simple?

Peace,

Danny S

AA Sponsor Still Drinks

My Sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous drinks Non Alcoholic beer. Is it my place to talk to him about it?

Tom G

*******************************************************************************

Hi Tom,

Either your sponsor is not a real alcoholic or he is an alcoholic who still drinks. Do you want either for a sponsor? Fire his Butt and get someone else to sponsor you.

Here's why -

If you consult AA's book, the book they were actually named after, "Alcoholics Anonymous" (or "Big Book") you will learn that a real alcoholic is allergic to ANY amount - even .5% (The typical percentage allowed in "non-alcoholic" beer ) - the same way someone allergic to say LATEX will react even if the only cover one finger with a latex glove - or someone allergic to strawberries eats only a tiny strawberry.

The term "nonalcoholic" as used by beer companies is a misnomer. It is more a function of "labeling requirements" than it is an "ingredient issue."

The only reason the beer company gets to print "Non-Alcoholic" on their label is due to FDA labeling requirements that lets low percentages through a threshold loophole for consumer information purposes.

In a real alcoholic the inability to stop is the result in a craving for more alcohol that is the physical result of a buildup of chemicals in his liver (acetone) because his pancreatic and liver functions are not up to par. This abnormally high level of the chemical and the resultant "craving" is abnormal and hence fits the definition of "allergy" since only roughly ten percent of the world population is deficient in their ability to metabolize alcohol properly.

Did this happen to your sponsor? If not he’s not even an alcoholic - not by the AA “Our description of the alcoholic” found in the first 43 pages of the book “Alcoholics Anonymous” anyway. You would do well to find out. It might save your life to know.

Your own Big Book from your own fellowship offers this:

"We know that while the alcoholic keeps away
from drink, as he may do for months or years,
he reacts much like other men. We are equally
positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever
into his system, something happens, both in the
bodily and mental sense, which makes it virtually
impossible for him to stop"
(Alcoholics Anonymous, 22:3)

"ANY ALCOHOL WHATEVER" - even .5%.

So this is why I must conclude that either your sponsor is not the real McCoy or he is still drinking. Either way - forgive him - but dump him.

I hope that helps. I REALLY do.

Peace,

Danny S

Genetically Predisposed Alcoholics?

Danny,

People who support the idea that alcoholism is a diseases often cite "genetic predisposition" when explaining it. What I do not understand is that if someone is aware of their "genetic predisposition," then why would they take a chances or put themselves in situations where they may become addicted? Both my parents were hardcore alcoholics, so I made a conscious decision at a young age to never drink and I never have. It was not difficult for me at all but people are always amazed when I tell them this. There are many of other reasons why I don't drink but main one the stupidity of my parents.

Carl
**********************************************************************************
Hi Carl. What you describe I have also found to be true. That is what is known as the physical component of alcoholism and yes it is genetic. The reason it doesn’t not make sense to you is that this single characteristic alone does not FULLY describe the alcoholic. There is still one more characteristic of the alcoholic -which when combined with the physically part - makes a person truly powerless to "Just don't drink" as you clearly can do yourself.

Both the physical AND the mental must be present before a person truly fit’s the description of the alcoholic. If one is missing, yet the person still drinks too much, too often and it is causing them problems - then is person is NOT a real alcoholic, but merely a hard drinker.

Let me just lay it out for you, then see if it makes better sense to you. And remember, a real alcoholic must have these two conditions present simultaneously:

1)Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start they cannot stop.

PLUS

2) Allergy of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "Craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop.

This is an abnormal reaction and hence an "allergic" reaction.

________________________________________________________

The obsession - a strange insanity that occurs as a “mental blank spot” immediately preceding the taking of a drink, guarantees that the person afflicted will take the drink even with the full knowledge that it will result in a craving for more (allergy) or even though he may not have intended to drink.

___________________________________________________________

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in problem drinking (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT does not qualify as a real alcoholic. Only ten percent of the world’s population has both of these conditions simultaneously. Do you see the vicious cycle, Carl?

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." (Alcoholics Anonymous, 44:1)

Some people erroneously think that alcoholism is a Three-Fold disease. However according to the book Alcoholic’s Anonymous the malady is not actually a disease but a malady and it only Two-Fold: mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an allergy of the body.

The obsession - a strange insanity that occurs as a “mental blank spot” immediately preceding the taking of a drink, guarantees that the person afflicted will take the drink even with the full knowledge that it will result in a craving for more (allergy) or even though he may not have intended to drink.

This is strangely supplanted for the idea that it is safe to drink despite experience that it may not be safe to drink without experiencing the phenomenon of craving.

No matter how intelligent we alcoholics may have been in other areas of our lives, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. We allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found we cannot break it, once having lost our self-confidence, our reliance upon things human, our problems pile up on us and become astonishingly difficult to solve.

Recovery from the obsession (mental) component is possible but there is no known cure for the physical allergy portion. However breaking that one aspect is enough to sever the vicious cycle and allow us to live normal lives – as long as we never put alcohol into out bodies thereby setting off the physical allergy (craving).
_______________________________________________________________

Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.
______________________________________________________________

Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.

I would never suggest to someone that they either ARE or ARE NOT alcoholic - only the individual knows their personal history well enough and so completely as to make that decision. Many people who abuse alcohol for entire lifetimes NEVER even become alkies – just heavy alcohol abusers - although both lifestyles suck!

Then, some with a genetic predisposition start off slowly and eventually DO “cross the line”. Until they do, they are what is known as “potential alcoholics” and if they continue will eventually “cross the line” and develop the physical allergy due to the overtaxing of their pancreas and livers. Once that occurs, and we know not when it does, there is no going back.

Here’s an article that may also help: http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/2...


I hope that helps.

Peace,

Danny S

The Stream Of Life

Hi Danny,

My name's Nola and I'm a real addict. I'm working the steps with a sponsor who is also a real addict, and in looking at the evening review, I'm wondering what it means when it asks about "what we could pack in to the stream of life." Could you give me (us - my sponsor and me) your take on that? Thanks!

Nola
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What a fantastic question. I have never articulated this in writing before – so I guess I will simply tell you what goes through my head each evening when I ask myself the question, "Where was I thinking of what I could pack into the stream of life.”

I am a writer so I have a very visual way of thinking. I actually envision a real “Stream” of water – with currents, movement in one direction, river banks, rocks ect. This just happens automatically - each night.

Here’s how I do it: At the end of the day then I see the past 24 hrs as a small “piece” of the long stream (This is where “one-day-at-a-time” has real meaning.) The stream is not only MY life (Life isn’t all about ME - anymore) but the world around – the events of the day, the people I’ve met and the conversations I’ve had and how I have met the stress of each situation. It doesn’t matter if it was a “Good” stress or “Bad” stress. If I was required to react in some way, then it was a stress – keeping in mind that all kinds of stress are necessary for human and spiritual growth – the same way a flower in a field grows as it faces natural stresses of wind, rain, sun ect. It grows through all of these – upward and nourished.

I always answer that question truthfully and I if I reword it incorrectly to mean “Did I pack into the stream.” I will never have a “YES” answer - because each day has its own agnostic moments when I HAVE experienced selfishness, self-centeredness, dishonesty and fear and I “forgot” that it is not I in charge of those moments but my Creator. Hopefully I have been utilizing the four actions of Step Ten to handle these as they appeared (cropped up) I would go to bed a complete failure in life if I did it that way.

It is the 12th of 12 nighttime questions when I for me to locate during the day those times “WHERE” I WAS “THINKING” of packing into the stream of life. Not “did I succeed” in packing it full to capacity. I am not God or Jesus or Buddha or a saint.

So by simply “locating” the spots in the day where my thoughts were not focused on ME but on others, I get to see two things: 1) just how defective I still am in this world – and just how much I HAVE growth for the time when my thoughts were totally void of ANY thought for others at all. And it also gives me INFORMED cause to ask God to show me how to do it better tomorrow.

It is a positive learning and growing exercise when I do this in this fashion.

Thanks for being a part of our study and thanks for the contact! And If I can help further don't hesitate. If you ask others who give you some other ideas on this that you think I may also find useful, please forward them to me. I am always looking for new perspectives too based on others experience.

More on this here: STREAM

Peace,

Danny S
http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com

Drinking For Effect Is No Criteria For True Alcoholism

I do not drink often but when I do it is not because I think it tastes good or because I am thirsty. It is because I want a "buzz" - so I guess I am an alcoholic. I have not had a drink since New Years Eve. Why is the number one sign of alcoholism "drinking to get drunk"?

*****************************************************************************************

Hi,

It isn't. You are drinking "for effect" as they say. Drinking to get an effect – like a “buzz” or to “relax” or to become "sociable" - is not a clear-cut sign of alcoholism.

All men and all women drink because they like the effect and that is whether they are alcoholic or not. There is no such thing as a social drinker who is not drinking for some kind of effect that alcohol produces. You would have to have several other characteristics both physical (allergy) and mental (obsession) in order to be considered a real alcoholic.

You will find more on what those characteristics are and how they manifest here:

http://gourl.org/amianalkie

Some treatment centers and addictions counselors may be far more lenient with their labeling criteria than the ones I mention. And why not? Why narrow the market of paying "clients". More often than not a person who abuses alcohol will never become a true alcoholic yet will have a decdent line of credit still opened or a worried parant willing to mortgagew the home in order to get their wayward 'child' into a rehab. That's a $10,000 - $40,0000 payday for a facility. Do think they are going to tell someone, "Oh wait. You might not actully be an alcoholic".

Hell no! Where do you think the idea that "If you're here then you're in the right place" came from. Not AA - I guarantee you that! It leeched into the AA fellowship meetings, lick poopoo from a septic tank leaches into drinking water - through greedy rehab centers who WILL kick you're drunken ass out if your check doesnt clear or grandma doesnt draw out her pension account or sell that annuity.

Instead they may ruin their lives just by being selfish abusers of alcohol and if given serious enough reason – say, loss of job, relationships, self-esteem ect. – the will be able to grab the bull by the horns and cease or moderate when things get bad enough. It happens all the time. Counseling can help these types.

The number one "sign" of alcoholism is the inability to stop at will once you start - combined with an equally disturbing inability to "not start" at will.

True alcoholics are a small minority and often find that they are beyond all human aid including rehabilitative efforts, meetings, self-will, church and th e like and so the seek a solution by having an entire and very drastic "psychic change". They seem to find it through a spiritual approach. The Twelve Steps represents such a drastic approach for real alcoholics.

The number one "sign" of alcoholism is the inability to stop at will once you start - combined with an equally disturbing inability to "not start" at will. It is a vicious and deadly cycle.

No cycle - no alcoholism.

Only a spiritual awaking has ever been show to have the ability to break that cycle.

Is there someone in your life trying to convince you that you are an alcoholic? If so then that person is a suspicious character as far as I am concerned and if that is you situation then deal with that person first because alcoholism is not a concern of yours right now - not based upon what you have have written, anyway.

Peace,

Danny S

Is My Friend An Alcoholic?

My friend is twenty nine years old males who works in sales. Every time I see him he is either drunk or drinking. He usually binge drinks all weekend long. Sometimes he goes out drinking till nine in the morning and takes a taxi to my home to crash in bed. He also drinks all week long and claims to get 'stomach flu', vomiting and getting sick for days at a time. His looks pale all of the time too. Is he an alcoholic?

IEO

****************************************************************************

Hi IEO,

Alcoholism has nothing to do with how many or when you drink. It has to do with how your body reacts to alcoholic and then if that is an abnormal reaction, whether or not you drink anyway despite it. There are plenty of real alcoholics who drink less than you describe – as well as more than you describe. So whether or not he is one – cannot be decided on that basis alone.

Drinking a lot and often more often than not is an indication of "Problem" with alcohol - but this alone does not describe a real alcoholic.

Alcoholism is a two-fold malady - mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an allergy of the body.

So a real alcoholic must have these two conditions present simultaneously:

1) Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start they cannot stop.

PLUS

2) Allergy of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "Craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop.

This is an abnormal reaction and hence an "allergic" reaction.

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in problem drinking (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT does not qualify as a real alcoholic.

Both conditions must be present – and only ten percent of the world’s population has both of these conditions simultaneously.

So whether or not someone is a real alcoholic depends upon the existence of these two conditions simultaneously – something only THEY can answer - because THEY are the only ones with the intimate details of their drinking history - even details which will NOT BVE KNOWN to their closest friends and relatives.

It is a two-fold malady mental AND physical - characterized by (i) an obsession of the mind coupled with (ii) an allergy of the body.

The obsession - a strange insanity that occurs as a “mental blank spot” immediately preceding the taking of a drink, guarantees that the person afflicted will take the drink even with the full knowledge that it will result in a craving for more (allergy) or even though he may not have intended to drink.

This is strangely supplanted for the idea that it is safe to drink despite experience that it may not be safe to drink without experiencing the phenomenon of craving (allergy).

"However intelligent an alcoholic may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, they have been strangely insane. These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence, their reliance upon things human, their problems pile up on them and become astonishingly difficult to solve." ("Alcoholics Anonymous" The Doctors Opinion)

Recovery from the obsession (mental) component is possible but there is no known cure for the physical allergy portion. Alcoholism is distinct from "hard", "heavy" or "problem" drinking or other "addictions" including "drug addiction" in that the two components of mental, alcoholic obsession and physical allergy to ETOH (ethyl alcohol) in some form must be simultaneously present in the individual.

I am not suggesting that it is healthy or wise to develop a habit of drinking as your friend does. But very many alcoholics start off just as he. They are what is known as “potential alcoholics” and if they continue will eventually “cross the line” and develop the physical allergy due to the overtaxing of their pancreas and livers. Once that occurs, and we know not when it does, there is no going back.

Here’s an article that may also help: http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com/2004/10/learning-i-was-alcoholic.html

I hope that helps.

Peace,

Danny S

Alcoholic Father - Need Help

Alcoholic Father, Need Help?

I used to have the worlds greatest dad, the dad I could look up to, trust and love. It feels like, when I was 7 he died. And then at 8 a man, who looked extraordinary like me and my sibling came home, smelling (of alcohol but I didn't realize then) announcing that he was my father. Since that day he has been at home about 3 hours every month, emotionally abusing us (me and my siblings living at home), grounding us and yelling for no reason. Then about 2 months ago he quit his job and stopped drinking for a week where he took me to Europe. Then he went back to drinking, except he didn't leave, he's still at home. Last week things had gotten bad enough for my mum to tell him he had to stop getting drunk or she'd divorce him. He has stopped getting drunk but he's in almost as bad a mood because of his irritability at not being able to drink. All I want is my daddy back and I'm scared he'll just go back to being the alcoholic he was. I can't live like this, every night is hell, I need him.

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Hi "Needs him",

Many people grow up with an abusive, alcoholic parent - so believe me when I tell you that you most certainly are not alone. I know what you are going through. My dad was negative, abusive, drunk much of the time, hit my mom, hit me and my sisters and it took me until I was in my forties to get over him.

I hid my home life from friends and our home became a dark cave where only I knew the truth. I would see others and what I perceived to be their “happy and normal” lives and felt “less than” all the time. It affected my behaviors, ability to socialize and feel normal and carried WELL INTO MY ADULTHOOD.

The funny thing is - dad was really a great guy inside. There were characteristics he had that I could really admire and emulate - but as his drinking picked up it became increasingly difficult to see those. I learned later, as an active alkie myself - that HE too found it increasingly difficult to keep the admirable side up-front - as alcohol took over more and more. We alkies have a moral and decent side that after a while we ourselves cannot live up to our own standards. Every time he abuses you - whether physically or verbally - a little piece of him hurts him in indescribable, torturous pains that only the alcoholic knows. And there is nothing he can do about it except drink more to put out the fire. I know.

There is not much upside to living under the circumstances you have described and I have lived through. I am finished with that horror – having lived through it - but you are not. I also became an alcoholic later on just like he was - the difference between he and I is that I finally recovered and now see what I COULD have done back then when I was still a kid - but no one told me.

So I will tell you. HERE: http://www.al-anon.org/alateen.html...

There you will learn how to handle treat yourself and get through this. Remember that dad is sick. Very ill. Resentment and anger at your Dad WILL HARM YOU way more than an abusive alcoholic EVER will. And you MUST find the way to deal with THOSE.

You cannot change your Dad, but you CAN have a decent life in spite of him if you learn how to handle your reactions to the stress he causes. Life if only 5% what you makes it – and 95% how you take it. It is the only hope I know of.

Good luck and if I can help further please let me know.

Peace,

Danny S

http://recoveredalcoholic.blogspot.com...

Definition Of An Alcoholic

What is your definition of an alcoholic? I have been told that if you only drink once a year every year on a certain occasion you are an alcoholic because you plan your drinking. That sounds dumb to me.

Cowboy

********************************************************************************

Hi Cowboy,

How much or when a person drinks has just about nothing to do with whether or not one is an alcoholic. Drinking a lot and often - might be an indication of "Problem" with alcohol - but this alone does not describe a real alcoholic.

A real alcoholic must have these two conditions present simultaneously:

1) Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start the cannot stop.

PLUS

2) Allergy of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "Craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop.

This is an abnormal reaction and hence an "allergic" reaction.

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in problem drinking even HARD DRINKING (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT it in no way qualifies one as a real alcoholic.

Both conditions must be present – and only ten percent of the world’s population has both of these conditions simultaneously

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." (Alcoholics Anonymous, 44:1)

Peace,

Danny S

Non-Alcoholic Beer Is For Non-Alcoholics

If you are an alcoholic, is it okay to drink non-alcoholic beer such as O'Doul's?

Even though it says it is a non-alcoholic drink, the label says that it contains less than .5% alcohol by volume.

Skye

*********************************************************************************

Hi Skye,

Of course it's OK to drink small amounts of alcohol for an alcoholic. Alcoholics MUST and WILL drink - no matter what - UNLESS he is trying to stop - in which case he will be utterly unable to stop once any alcohol whatever enters his body. Then it is NOT OK – because he will not be able to stop all of the time.

A real alcoholic is allergic to ANY amount - even .5% the same way someone allergic to say LATEX will react even if they were to cover just one finger with a latex glove - or someone allergic to strawberries eats only a tiny strawberry.

The only reason the beer company gets to print "Non-Alcoholic" on their label is due to FDA labeling requirements that lets low percentages through a threshold loophole for consumer information purposes. The same way that if they WANTED to market a beer as a true "ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE" - such a low alcohol content would be considered a rip-off - they would not be able to make that claim on the label.

In a real alcoholic the inability to stop is the result in a craving for more alcohol that is the physical result of a buildup of chemicals in his liver (acetone) because his pancreatic and liver functions are not up to par. This abnormally high level of the chemical and the resultant "craving" is abnormal and hence fits the definition of "allergy" since only roughly ten percent of the world population is deficient in their ability to metabolize alcohol properly.

Hope that helps!

Peace,

Danny S

Recovery Success Rates

What is the approximate success rate of recovery for people who join Alcoholics Anonymous? It doesn't seem good. I am a recently recovering alcoholic. Out of curiosity, I would like to know the percentages. It seems as if AA has a revolving door and a low success rate. And, is anyone familiar with "Smart Recovery ®". Thank you for your help.

Just Me

*********************************************************************************

Hi Just,

Imagine having cancer- going to a cancer hospital and not taking the treatment. Now imagine that MOST cancer patients did as you did – come to the hospital and not take say the prescribed chemo and radiation therapies – but hope to solve their cancer problem by “just showing up”. If you count everyone who walks through the doors your ”successes” would be highly skewed downward percentage wise -- and a very poor presentation of how well those treatment methods work.

Well that’s exactly what happens in AA.

Out of all the people who come to AA, very few actually take the prescribed solution which is the Twelve Steps. So in order to have an accurate measure of success in AA – you would have to be able to sort through those who refuse the solution and “Just show up” from those who actually follow the few simple rules - which are very effective, fast acting and result in full recovery. If you do THAT you will find that AA works most often than ANY other type of treatment for alcoholism.

I know of a group which has an 83% success rate. And when AA was first founded it had a 75% success rate. Compare that with the “best” rehab facility in the country like Betty Ford – which has at best something like a 17% success rate and you’ll see that AA does the best job.

Peace,

Danny S

Crossing The Line

Danny,

At what point is someone considered an alcoholic? I have a friend who's husband drinks about eight or nine beers every evening after he comes home from work. Although it seems to have no effect on him, his tolerance is very high.

My ex-wife, who likes her wine, doesn't drink every night, but when she goes out - about once or twice a week - she always gets drunk, sometimes to the point of throwing up. Are they both alcoholic? Or is one just a binge drinker? I am worried, because kids are half the time with her.

**********************************************************************************
Contrary to popular belief - how much or when a person drinks has very little to do with alcoholism. Drinking a lot and often, more often than not ,is an indication of a "Problem" with alcohol - but this alone does not describe a real alcoholic.

Most people, even those who abuse alcohol to the extent that their health and relationships are adversely affected, CAN stop if given sufficient reason - such as doctor's advice, threat of financial, familial or other loss.

But in order to be considered a real alcoholic a person must have the following two conditions present simultaneously:

1) Obsession of the mind - Cannot resist taking a drink even though he/she knows once they start the cannot stop.

PLUS

2) Allergy of the body - Once any alcohol whatever is taken into his/her system, something happens in a physical sense that is without comparable effect on the average individual - a physical phenomenon of "craving" develops - which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop, even if he/she wants and/or needs to stop. This is an abnormal reaction and hence an "allergic" reaction.

So you see, once we start we cannot stop - and we cannot NOT start! We are mentally deficient as well as physically until we can find some way to recover - and full recovery is possible.

The existence on neither or only ONE of the above may result in "Problem drinking" (Drinking too much - too often - even to the point of damage to ones health and livelihood) BUT does not qualify as a real alcoholic.

Both conditions must be present.

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." (Alcoholics Anonymous, 44:1)

So the exact point when a person becomes an alcoholic is exactly when BOTH conditions are operative. For example, I first obsessed over drinking for years, but could always stop when I wanted to - after I got my "fix". Then I "crossed the line" physically

Exactly when I cannot say. It's not something you notice. There's no "Sonic boom" or internal "Alarm" that goes off -- and from that moment on I could no longer stop once I started - I was permanently an alcoholic - like a pickle is permanently a pickle and no longer a cucumber anymore.

A problem occurs when businesses such as rehab centers and anyone who receives funding or compensation to counsel and treat "Alcoholics" attempt to expand their "market" by being inclusive of ANYONE who simply "drinks too much". They tend to label people as "alcoholic" even though these "clients" may be mere "hard drinkers". For example: If I had a treatment for diabetes, I would make more money and have more "customers" for my "cure" if I could re-term "anyone who eats too much sugar" as being diabetic. Now I get to include a much larger market in my business plan can fill my facilities much easier, AND raise my "success rate" because I am "curing" people of "diabetes" who never HAD diabetes to begin with.

Compound this situation with the idea that I REALLY do not HAVE a cure for diabetes, but it seems so because of my now highly inflated and false "success rate" and I think you get the idea of what Alcoholism treatment is all about.

And now for a THIRD complication: Suppose I could convince the public at large that not only are "all sugar abuser" diabetic but even folks who abuse coffee/caffeine are ALSO diabetic. Now I have a TREMENDOUS profitable market I NEVER would have had if I stuck with REAL DIABETICS - for whom I have no cure anyway.

Bona-fide diabetics are the alcoholics, hard drinkers are the sugar abusers and the coffee/caffeine abusers are the "drug addicts" in the alcoholism recovery field. It is a real mess!

You also mentioned "Binge drinking" - here's more on that: http://gourl.org/binge

Hope that helps.

Peace,

Danny S

Mom May Need Intervention

Dear Danny,
I'm the oldest of four daughters and currently live in Los Angeles. I've been here for almost five years. Two of my other sisters live in Phoenix and Chicago, and my youngest (20 years old) lives at home with my mom. The problem is my mom - she is an alcoholic and battles depression. I don't want to make this a long, drawn-out story, but my sisters and I are at a point where we think we need to have some sort of intervention with mom. She is 53 years old, unable to hold a job, drinks weekly (most likely daily), takes anti-anxiety pills and has been for the last eight years and has just started an anti-depressants. Considering she now does all at once is quite troublesome. All of us are willing to go home for a bit to help her.

I don't know what to do. She is stubborn, in denial, extremely defensive, and refuses to listen to anybody. Every time I have called her out on her life, a big argument erupts and she ends up storming out of the room. She comes from a family of alcoholics and overall addiction. Both her physical and emotional states are at stake, and we are often threatened with the fact she will take her own life. Today she lost yet another job, took 4 anti-anxiety pills and asked my dad to go buy her some wine. (They are divorced but he still looks after her). She might lose her house. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The point of this is that I don't know what to do. I'm worried for her. My sisters and I are grabbing at straws to try to figure out a way to get her life back on track. She needs rehab but considers herself above that type of thing. She needs therapy. Is ANYONE out there who can help - maybe has gone through this themselves? Maybe refer a program? Something....anything. I can assure you that any and all information on this would be greatly appreciated. We just want my mom to lead a happy life, to enjoy herself, to be with us for a long time.

Please help....

Love and peace to you,
Los Angeles Daughter
******************************************
Hi Daughter,
It is always touching when I hear from the children of an alcoholic. Your mom is one lucky and blessed woman to still have loving and caring children in her life – so many deep in their disease have no one left. As you have discovered, Alcoholism and drug addiction are a family disease and affects many more lives than the sufferer. It is usually recommended that since you too are affected and suffering, that some sort of treatment for you is also in order. When I first got sober, my family saw an immediate change in me. It was still new so there was a great deal of skepticism, but still better than what was before. My wife still needed to deal with her own pain even as I was dealing with mine. She got help.

When I asked her how it was going she said something, I will never forget. She said, "I am learning that I am just as sick as you are". That hit me hard. My illness had spread to her, even though she did not drink. It had affected her thinking, her emotions, and her abilities to relate properly to others.

I suggest that you contact Al-Alon Family Groups. They will help you heal in spite of your mom's sickness and they can suggest ways that you may affect her in positive ways. I know of very many alcoholics and drug addicts who have found permanent recovery first through the recoveries of their loved ones. You will all be in a much better position to be of help to her then.

For now mom needs to know that you love her. Her explosive behaviors are common to the untreated alcoholics. It does not mean she does not love you too. She may need to detox safely but unless she wants to, it can be difficult - but it is not impossible. Contact me privately and I will put you in touch with people in the Boston area who have experience with cases like moms. In the meantime, take the first step and seek some assist in your own lives too. Alcoholism is a family disease. You all have been affected and need to know some of the "tricks" to healing and helping that others who have been in your shoes can teach you.

Good luck.

Peace,

Danny S